why did littlefinger betray ned

December 01, 2020 | mins read

Make Shadowbabies Not War, May 12, 2016 in General (ASoIaF). Littlefinger cares about Littlefinger and absolutely nothing else. It remains kind of a mystery, but the Middle Ages are plagued with children with dubious parentage. Of course, Ned decided to back Stannis, which would be the end for LF, so he went with the safe choice - keeping his position on the Small Council, gaining the Lannisters trust and putting a very large army between him and Stannis. In wake of these events, Ned thought Littlefinger would keep his promise to Catelyn and help him out. No. The only way Littlefinger can advance in Westeroes society is by starting a war and taking advantage of the chaos that follows. He's just looking for possibilities. Tywin could use him as a hostage, so Arryn would rather send him to Stannis. Interstingly enough Harrenhal first comes up by Tyrion. He muddled about with Lysa's letter and the lie about the dagger to create some chaos, so their murder passed as less noticed as possible. Season 6 was the best season of Game of Thrones for the Starks since the first, back when daddy Ned was still alive and his children were unspoiled, un-murdered, un … He's described as taking after LF. Perhaps, but would have turned on Ned eventually just as he did the Lannisters. The choice was easy for him; little did he know that Ned Stark's pardon and release would be bungled... Littlefinger wanted power. Baelish betrays Stark because Eddard was going to go against his wishes to have Joffery be the successor. He is also much more prominent which is not an advantage for a guy who works behind the scenes and he is away from any center of power. It is revealed later that Littlefinger has been in love with Catelyn since they were kids. This is where Littlefinger tipped the other way. So Lord Baelish's plan was to back Joffrey's claim to the throne and isolate him from his mother (and the Lannisters) with Lord Stark serving as Joffrey's regent since he is under-aged. How to prevent acrylic or polycarbonate sheets from bending? Stepping stones, both of them. The possibility of Stannis gaining prominence at court combined with the possibility of Lysa becoming (more) unstable because of her son's fosterage and potentially letting slip that LF was fucking her. And lord protector is a dead end. He killed Jon Arryn with the help of Lysa so that he hoped King Robert would reach out for Ned to serve as Hand of the King. Lysa also reveals that Baelish is the one who convinced her to send Catelyn Stark the secret message fingering the Lannisters for his death. The same goes with Sansa. Lysa did not want anyone to take Sweetrobin away. Lysa was mad enough. In season 1 of Game of Thrones, Lord Baelish sets up Lord Stark when he helps set up the fake coup. Had he assisted Ned Stark in stopping Joffrey from becoming king, he would have made himself an enemy of the Lannisters (apparently stronger than the Starks both militarily and financially). Starks and Lannisters seemed eager o throw themselves to each other throat. I was always wondering, who does Varys truly serve? Lord Rickard served King Aerys II Targaryen as W… This was, to him, unacceptable. Jon Arryn was a much easier target for LF than Stannis. Then Ned makes every stupid decision on his choice. Why are these people in Winterfell for so long? Example of X and Z are correlated, Y and Z are correlated, but X and Y are independent. Ned insists on bringing in Robert's brother once Joffrey is dethroned. Lysa says that Arryn's words "The seed is strong" meant that SR will be a strong man, being his son. Also, poisoning the Hand, sending a letter to Cat, stitching up Tyrion and betraying Ned, all to stave off Stannis, seems pretty convoluted. That stated, it can't be said for certain who SR's father is. I think it was all part of a wider plan. He needed to make a great service to someone, so that he be awarded with suiting for Lysa's hand. Littlefinger got Ned killed, sided with the Lannisters against Robb and stuck Sansa with the Boltons. There is a conversation he has with Ned Stark about their plan. This was nicely put. Ned holds the north. Or is he truly a devoted man to the Realm, as he says. How do you make the Teams Retrospective Actions visible and ensure they get attention throughout the Sprint? Worse he might stumble to the truth. I'm betting LF had a good laught with that. That's a great position to be in. By The plan he pitched to Ned of ruling through Joffrey until they got rid of Stannis sums up to me. SEE ALSO: What that ultra-creepy Bran/Sansa reunion on 'Game of Thrones' means In fact, crowning Joff and being named the Protector of the Realm was equal to take the king as hostage. Did Littlefinger recognize the Stark serving girl in Season Two? Petyr'… Did she know who the father was? Why not? Sure, I don't doubt that he finds her attractive but I get the impression that he's far more interested in her status as the "rightful" Lady of Winterfell, heir to Riverrun, wife of the *rightful* Lord of Casterly Rock, etc, than he is about trying to relive some fantasy about her Mother. How would Littlefinger have control over the regent? I don't think he minded whom, provided it was the winning side. He made money by the bucket load and was a convenient go to guy to things in exchange for favors. Not "seize" the throne, but Ned did actually decline Littlefinger at one point! The Starks and Lannisters may have had little to no regard for each other, but until Littlefinger got the animosity started, they had each been content to let the other be. I'm sure he has good reasons for being there and I am also sure that one them is to preserve his own head. Harrenhal is a stepping stone to becoming Lord Protector of the Vale via marriage with Lysa, Lord Protector of the Vale is a stepping stone to something else. He refused Loras to go after Clegane, losing the Tyrell's support, he warned Cersei, rejected Renly and unheard LF's advise but asked LF for help what meant bringing about Stannis. When Ned arrives at King's Landing LF becomes his shadow and is so helpful in steering him towards the incest and when Cat shows up with a surprisingly familiar dagger he implicates Tyrion who is so conveniently not there to dispute anything he says and also the safest of the Lannisters to be talking shit about. Did she know who the father was? His actual deeds may be pale, but they are the foundation for most of the events of the series. It remains kind of a mystery. and the merchant's daughter. After all the shit has hit the fan Ned orders him to help him install Stannis to the throne. This resulted in turning the City Guard against Ned, instead of in his favour. Is there any evidence to clarify Jon Snow's fate? If Lysa had committed adultery with Petyr, she would have listed it as a favour to Petyr then. [This may be better @/u/Goontar: Littlefinger initially made a different proposal to Ned.Ned got himself boned.] We know it wasn't the truth, but we can't be sure of Lysa's intent. But Lord Stark had other ideas. I doubt it. However, I think taking it too far suggests that Littlefinger was just reacting to events. No matter how many times I replay this series from the very beginning, there is always something I missed first time round which explains subsequent events. This does not apply to Stannis. This story has MAJOR spoilers for the Game of Thrones Season 7 finale. Petyr Baelish was the head of House Baelish and the lord of an extremely minor holding, so small it has neither name nor a maester, located in a small area within the Fingers, a coastal region in the northeastern shores of the Vale of Arryn. LF acted boldly when the war started, but some others played their part, and it was crux. There is a conversation he has with Ned Stark about their plan. Of course he betrayed him but, could have LF wisely done anything else? Was LF sincere when he offered his help to Ned? If his plan was to marry Cat, and then off Hoster and Edmure, then it was all on the line as well. By Matt Miller. Lord Baelish knew Stannis very well from serving with him in the Small Council. rev 2020.11.30.38081, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Movies & TV Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. Query to update one column of a table based on a column of a different table. The Lannisters are nothing if not generous to those loyal to them, and through further services to the Lannisters he is awarded with the lordship of Harrenhal. Stannis is actually the heir under the law and the absolute last person that Baelish wants to see on the throne. The story of the sweet boy who turned into a manipulative sociopath after losing the love of his life is nice and all, but it seems a bit convenient that said manipulative sociopath just happened to "fall in love" with a girl who was only two deaths away from being the Lady of Riverrun. That's why Lysa and LF planned to kill him. So Lord Baelish sided with the Lannisters and helped them foil Stark's plan. Why do people call an n-sided die a "d-n"? It does fit with what Stannis says about Slynt and Littlefinger at the Wall. If Lysa was sure that Petyr wasn´t Robin´s father, but thought Petyr might be unsure, she would also have told Petyr that he was the father. Littlefinger betrayed Ned Stark, causing him to be seized and executed He killed his wife, Lysa Arryn, by pushing her out of the Moon Door and taking over the Vale He sold Sansa to the Boltons, which then led to her horrific marriage to the psychotic Ramsay Bolton. Littlefinger could not have possibly predicted events would unfold the way they did, but intentions do not matter - if he had not convinced Lysa to murder Jon Arryn and then write to Cat saying it was the Lannisters, none of these events would have occurred. @MarcelTuring Is there evidence that Stannis burned anyone alive at the time of this betrayal? It's all a game to him, and one that is constantly in flux. Littlefinger was one of the primary drivers of the war and the assassination attempt on Bran was a part of it. No. and .. using ls or find? check if plugin is loaded in .vimrc and set option accordingly? Being the Master of Coin, Littlefinger knew the financial position of the kingdom. For what its worth, I think jealousy is the primary motive for Baelish betraying Stark - and the l-o-n-g memory of a love lost to a better man. Was SR fostering reason enough to kill Arryn? House Baelish had very meager origins and no distinguished lineage: Petyr's great-grandfather was a lowly sellsword from Braavos who came to the Vale at the invitation of House Corbray. Sidelining Stannis may have been something he felt needed to fit into the plan, but not the main aim. We know it wasn't the truth, but we can't be sure of Lysa's intent. If you can't remember, it was when Ned stood before Joffrey backed by the City Watch, only to have them betray him and point their swords at the Starks. Littlefinger then conspired with the Lannisters to betray Ned; they had him arrested in a coup, imprisoned, and tried as a traitor - though the original plan was for Ned to admit treason (which he did under duress to protect his daughters), take the black and join the Night's Watch. LF didn't name Ned as Hand, nor did he throw Bran from a window, took an innocent for hostage, reacted to the slight with extreme violence, had Robert killed, etc. Eddard's dislike of the Lannisters is right there in Eddard I GOT, Ned would sooner entrust a child to a pit viper than to Lord Tywin, but he left his doubts unspoken. and Jon Arryn was seeking for children taking after parents. The boy is very young.". That's why Lysa and LF planned to kill him. Still, that’s irrelevant because Ned would never have gone for it, and Littlefinger knew that. The way I see it LF was at the height of his power as master of coin during Robert's reign with Jon Arryn as hand. I think the political schemes are all bound up in the jealousy thing. Is he somehow preparing Westeros for her arrival? If I'm being completely honest, I don't even believe Littlefinger really loved Cat. I think he's SR's father, and Jon Arryn was seeking for children taking after parents. Even Catelyn Stark knew Littlefinger "betrayed" Ned, from hundreds of mile away in a war camp and Baelish himself told her she might have heard false reports. That of course leaves Stannis who has good reason to believe that Arryn was murdered and the next hand Ned is going to be inclined to listen. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. So he gets Lysa to send a letter to Cat pointing them in the wrong direction. It seemed Catelyn eventually understood he didn't want to lose his head along with the honourable Ned and that's why … IMO, what she says when they meet in LF's tower leaves little room to doubt. How could he keep the kingdoms united if he can't unite his own lands? Killing Jon solved a predictable problem. Some old wounds never truly heal, and bleed again at the slightest word. (Talk about awkward!). Of course, if she knew that SR was LF's son, she wouldn't by any means confess it. Petyr Baelish wants one thing: power. And goes on about the son she would have given him, who was killed. But the problem was that now Tywin was wanting Sweetrobin as ward. How to exclude the . Frankly with Eddard in charge Littlefinger would be lucky to stay as Master of Coin. By contrast his title as lord paramount of the riverlands is a fiction and his title as lord protector has an expiration date and he expends money, power and influence to maintain it, rather than gaining those things from it. A Forum of Ice and Fire A Song of Ice and Fire & Game of Thrones House Stark rules the region from their seat of Winterfell, and Eddard also held the title Lord of Winterfell. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie Policy, Privacy Policy, and our Terms of Service. He's described as taking after LF. He was denied marriage to Cat because he was lowborn (in relative terms), and this fuelled his hatred of the Starks and Tullys. In that scenario, with Stannis gone, Joff would also be expendable since he had Tommen and Myrcella as heirs, as well as Renly if they decided to reveal the Twincest. To become a better guitar player or musician, how do you balance your practice/training on lead playing and rhythm playing? Why did Daenerys say this in “The Queen's Justice”? By contrast his title as lord paramount of the riverlands is a fiction and his title as lord protector has an expiration date. Littlefinger cares about Littlefinger and absolutely nothing else. So they needed allies. It had to be stopped. He doesn't have any firm plans, he just puts pieces in place, keeps his involvement safe and then watches how it plays out from a safe distance. Compared with all that, LF's deeds pale. When the war was starting, Ned took every wrong decision at hand. Jon Arryn's murder, Lysa's letter to Catelyn, Ned's lack of Gold Cloak support, the Tyrell-Lannister alliance, Jeyne Poole's "training" and eventual marriage to Ramsay, the Kettleblacks, Joffrey's murder, Sansa's escape, Dontos's murder, his marriage to Lysa, Lysa's murder, Nestor Royce's promotion, the marriage between Lord Corbray (?) Eddard Stark was the head of House Stark and Lord Paramount of the North of the constituent regions of the Seven Kingdoms, and House Stark is one of the Great Houses of the realm. Especially not a situation where he was as out matched as in that duel. But this time, the threat wasn't as light. We only have his niggard depiction and the words of his crazy mother. Forget about it, it'd screw up the story. Good answers so far, I wanted to add another factor that may have contributed to Littlefinger's (Baelish's) betrayal of Ned Stark. When Ned wants to leave King's Landing and out of his warchful eye with the possibility to talk to the old gods know who, he persuades him to visit just one last brothel and informs Jaime where to find him afterward. On 16/5/2016 at 9:37 PM, Eden-Mackenzie said: 6 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said: 1 minute ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said: Westeros: The 'A Song of Ice and Fire' Domain, House of the Dragon Showrunner Interviewed, Folio Society Publishes A Storm of Swords Illustrated Edition, Game of Thrones Complete Collection (Blu-Ray), The Most Sentimental Reader in the Forums, Health and Safety Rep for the Door Guards of Westros. Trying to make sure that there is peace, people are safe and he doesnt give damn who is king as long as there is no fighting? But Stannis is all justice, not mercy. Indubitably, Beaelish acts according to the Objectivist principle (capital O), but it's not hard to see that not-living-under-a-brutal-theocracy would be in most people's self-interest (especially bordello owners), regardless of political ambition. He does not forgive the treachery of the Iron born; he wants to behead Balon Greyjoy for treason. Why did the Lord of Winterfell execute the deserter of the Night's Watch. Why does Peter Dinklage's name appear first in the opening credits? He doesn't have any firm plans, he just puts pieces in place, keeps his involvement safe and then watches how it plays out from a safe distance. Lysa is described as kinda mad cow but, so mad? Hopefully we'll see a POV from him in the next two books (especially since that'll mean he dies). Tywin and Walder were not. Powered by Invision Community. Lord Peytr Baelish aka Littlefinger has been known to betray those who have granted him favor or have employed him. Of course, if she knew that SR was LF's son, she wouldn't by any means confess it. Did medieval people wear collars with a castellated hem? (Same Up To ~0.0001km). The thing that I'm not seeing anywhere is evidence of the supposed master plan other than insinuations made by LF himself. It was a normal thing to do. The person he had easy access to and a willing catspaw was Jon Arryn let alone the fact that he was the one with all the credibility. I'm pretty sure LF was reacting to events. That could possibly get him to lose his head. Ned immediately went to the South, only to be betrayed and played by Baelish, and get his head chopped off. That would not only hurt trade and potentially foment unrest, but it would directly harm Baelish's financial/intelligence-gathering interests. All these responses are valid, but in Season 5 there is a huge reveal that is another reason Baelish betrayed Ned Stark. Betrayed Ned Stark in Season 1 when Ned tried to assert that Robert's children were not actually his. Makes perfect sense to me, the two motivations can’t be taken separately. At the Door, Lysa is talking about every favour she had done for Petyr - such as confessing the murder of Jon. MAINTENANCE WARNING: Possible downtime early morning Dec 2, 4, and 9 UTC…, “Question closed” notifications experiment results and graduation. The thought of going back to the Fingers could easily have provided the same motivation. LF's problems begun when Stannis became aware of the twincest and went to Arryn to try tp find proof. He and the City Watch turned on Ned Stark. If Lysa wasn´t sure who Robin´s father was, but thought it might be Petyr, she would have talked to Petyr about Robin as his son, not about the son who was killed. He had the patronage of the Hand and his wife's ear a king that gave him free reign to do whatever the fuck he wanted. I think Jon Arryn was poisoned due to his growing closeness to Stannis. Plus, there were a few throw-away lines indicating that Stannis would enact puritanical reforms, such as outlawing prostitution. Jun 28, 2017 There are a great many characters on Game of Thrones. It is impossible to take the north while Ned is at Winterfell. And thus, even over the course of the series, Littlefinger's rise has been dramatic — he betrayed Ned Stark and cemented his ties with the Lannisters. Littlefinger points out that the new king would probably replace everyone at court but Ned does not care. Now he has the trust of the Lannisters with all the influence that gives him. If anybody else was too distracted to completely comprehend the situation the first time through, it is actually quite interesting how explicitly Littlefinger seems to lay out his plans before Ned. He knew that without the money of the Lannisters it would be difficult to run the kingdom. While as insane a plan as it seemed, it was Littlefinger's best chance to retain what power he had as Head of Coin. While Littlefinger does like to initiate chaos in order to advance his plans, he does not simply kick off some chaos and see what happens, he always has an idea, or several, of what he plans to do next and how it fits with his overall plan. Renly is charismatic, with many loyal followers and he holds the vast bulk of Baratheon power from Storm's End - so even setting aside the line of succession, most men of the Storm Lands are unwilling to follow Stannis, their rightful Lord after Robert's death. That doesn't necessarily mean that he was in love with her though. The reason LF offered to help Ned rule as regent after Robert's death as well as attempting to persuade him to keep Joffrey as king wasn't out of concern for Ned or the realm, or even his love for Cat. Movies & TV Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for movie and TV enthusiasts. This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies. Now he turned the Lannisters against the Boltons and in return he wanted to become the Warden of the North. He'll never let himself get in a position where all his scheming relies on any one person or one event. He knows that he can never actually rule in name, but he wants to be at least the real power behind the throne. Why did Lord Baelish betray Eddard Stark? Littlefinger even attempts to pursue her romantically after Ned's death! More or less, what LF did in the Vale. I don't think Littlefinger wanted "revenge" on Ned. Littlefinger points out that the new king would probably replace everyone at court but Ned does not care. Why does Ramsay Snow engineer a sham escape? Mixing business with pleasure was Littlefinger. Who's SR father? Plus, his wife's family (House Florent) are dynastic rivals to the Tyrells, which would increase the chance of him getting revenge on them. Petyr Baelish A.K.A. Would he have then gone ahead with that plan? While he may not have been the primary instigator of these events, he was certainly involved at the secondary or tertiary levels. Baelish was the one who plotted to betray his father, which led to his execution. What he really wanted was to keep Stannis from getting the throne. It's pretty clear that Lysa and LF were lovers while she did her "duty" with Arryn. The Lie: “A dear friend,” referring to Lord Varys. Causing distability and chaos (more or less)? The specific moment of betrayal of Ned may have been circumstantial, but it was the culmination of something he’d been working towards since he poisoned Arryn (if not long before that). They were getting clean away with murder - everyone and their dog thought it was a natural sudden illness in old age. Don'f forget he loved/loves Cat and getting the chance to remove the man that took him from her, when there was no chance he could have done it one on one, he seized on that. True, but I think it's revealed in the very beginning that he always had a crush on her, even though not directly. The story of the sweet boy who turned into a manipulative sociopath after losing the love of his life is nice and all, but it seems a bit convenient that said manipulative sociopath just happened to "fall in love" with a girl who was only two deaths away from being the Lady of Riverrun. In this situation, he manipulated things in such a way that he ended up as the Kingmaker. Furthermore, Baelish most likely has wind of Renly Baratheon's unwillingness to serve under his brother. So, when Catelyn married Ned Stark, rather than Baelish, this instilled in him a powerful jealousy of Ned Stark. If he had supported Ned he would have done himself out of a very nice job with little chance of progression. But Petyr had conspired with Cersei and Joffery to betray Ned. Petyr's father, in turn, was the smallest of small lords of a few rocky acres on the smallest of the Fingers, who befriended Hoster Tully … But at the end, the City Watch turns against Ned Stark, slaughtering all Stark men and therefore arresting Ned Stark for treason. That's for sure, but the boldest actions weren't his, even though being involved in Arryn's in Joffrey's murders is quite a deal. Prison planet book where the protagonist is given a quota to commit one murder a week. That, together with sending Loras against the Lannisters through Clegane would have give him the winning hand. I think most of you overstate LF; he's not behind anything that happens. How does the title "Revenge of the Sith" suit the plot? Littlefinger takes the dagger from Ned and holds it to his throat as he's captured and his men are killed. That way Ned is out of Winterfell and also at Kings Landing where it is easier for him to get rid of Ned with his schemes. Stop reading now if you don't want a spoiler: After Baelish marries Lysa Arryn and becomes defacto Lord of the Vale (thanks to Cersei), it is revealed that Baelish has been involved with Lysa since the beginning and they poisoned her husband (Lord Arryn, Hand of the King) together. I agree with most of it. How should I handle money returned for a product that I did not return? Either Robert dies or he turns sixteen. Challenging Brandon was not safe, nor did he stubbornly refuse to yield from a safe distance. Further reasons that impressed me when reading: King Stannis would also have not forgotten being cruelly besieged at Storm's End by Mace Tyrell or the rebellion of the Iron Islands. He cleverly bought Ned's confidence and betrayed him when the time is right. How was Littlefinger getting along with Renly? So a friendless King Stannis, however rightful an heir and righteous in his cause, would bring certain civil war, social unrest and unquestionable harm to Baelish's interests. Is there (or can there be) a general algorithm to solve Rubik's cubes of any dimension? “I did warn you not to trust me,” said Petyr, as he puts a blade to Ned’s throat.

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